Comments on: The Fifth Discipline http://ericbrown.com/book-review-the-fifth-discipline.htm Technology, Strategy, People and Projects Fri, 12 Mar 2010 16:27:46 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Eric D. Brown http://ericbrown.com/book-review-the-fifth-discipline.htm/comment-page-1#comment-701 Eric D. Brown Fri, 22 Aug 2008 19:01:24 +0000 http://ericbrown.com/?p=503#comment-701 Andy, My take away from the book was that systems thinking helps you look at the underlying problems facing your organization rather than accepting the first 'cause' that you think you find. I don't think this book is about quality at all.....and that is made clear in the introduction to the 2nd edition. Senge states that TQM and other quality initiatives have driven the human spirit and the art of innovation out of business. Kodak failed because they didn't look hard enough at the underlying problem facing their photography business. Their problem wasn't quality or lack of innovation...their problem was that <b>they weren't innovating in the areas that mattered</b>. Andy,

My take away from the book was that systems thinking helps you look at the underlying problems facing your organization rather than accepting the first ’cause’ that you think you find. I don’t think this book is about quality at all…..and that is made clear in the introduction to the 2nd edition. Senge states that TQM and other quality initiatives have driven the human spirit and the art of innovation out of business.

Kodak failed because they didn’t look hard enough at the underlying problem facing their photography business. Their problem wasn’t quality or lack of innovation…their problem was that they weren’t innovating in the areas that mattered.

]]> By: Andrew Meyer http://ericbrown.com/book-review-the-fifth-discipline.htm/comment-page-1#comment-700 Andrew Meyer Fri, 22 Aug 2008 18:26:13 +0000 http://ericbrown.com/?p=503#comment-700 Eric, thanks for the reminder about one of the most idealistic books ever written. I love the book, but it reminds me of a comment my Sargent in the Air Force often told me when I came to him with some idealistic idea. "If a frog had wings, it wouldn't wop it's ass every time it jumped." Actually, he usually tried to say "Shut-up you sh*t head" several times before he got around to counseling this well meaning, but misguided young Airman. Senge's book is idealistic, hopeful and a wonderful read, but in many cases misguided. A business exists to sell widgets. The widget may be some service, some piece of software or a scraper to take stickers off windows, but at its core, it's just a widget the business is selling. The degree to which improving systems thinking, personal mastery, mental models, shared vision or learning makes a business relatively more effective at selling their widgets, you can expect those things to happen. "Relative" being the optimal word in that sentence. An individual may strive for personal excellence. That is a measure of their internal fortitude and desire, but an organization striving for an ideal out of sync with it's competition is no more likely than wings on a frog. In fact, thinking about it more, it's probably self destructive. Kodak probably built the best photographic film company by focusing on ideals of excellence, only to watch its business gutted by digital cameras. How many companies that won the Malcolm Baldridge Quality Award have nearly (or not so nearly) declared bankruptcy the next year? Eric,

thanks for the reminder about one of the most idealistic books ever written. I love the book, but it reminds me of a comment my Sargent in the Air Force often told me when I came to him with some idealistic idea.

“If a frog had wings, it wouldn’t wop it’s ass every time it jumped.”

Actually, he usually tried to say “Shut-up you sh*t head” several times before he got around to counseling this well meaning, but misguided young Airman.

Senge’s book is idealistic, hopeful and a wonderful read, but in many cases misguided. A business exists to sell widgets. The widget may be some service, some piece of software or a scraper to take stickers off windows, but at its core, it’s just a widget the business is selling.

The degree to which improving systems thinking, personal mastery, mental models, shared vision or learning makes a business relatively more effective at selling their widgets, you can expect those things to happen. “Relative” being the optimal word in that sentence.

An individual may strive for personal excellence. That is a measure of their internal fortitude and desire, but an organization striving for an ideal out of sync with it’s competition is no more likely than wings on a frog.

In fact, thinking about it more, it’s probably self destructive. Kodak probably built the best photographic film company by focusing on ideals of excellence, only to watch its business gutted by digital cameras. How many companies that won the Malcolm Baldridge Quality Award have nearly (or not so nearly) declared bankruptcy the next year?

]]>